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osci
Livepa.org Newcomer
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 47
Location: Toronto |
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Before I switched to the evil empire (the laptop) I did all my sequencing with my xl7. As hardware goes it totaly kicks ass. I recomend it all over the place and back. I tried to work with the rm1x but its midi implimentation was VERY weak when put side by side with the xl7.
peace
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| Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:52 am |
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Audioelectronic
Livepa.org Veteran
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: Portland, Oregon |
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| MPC vs. XL-7 |
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A topic very near and dear to my heart. I worked on the MPC2k OS and currently use an XL-7. 
All the MPCs since the 2000 are good for pattern-based live performance centered on muting and soloing tracks. The MPCs have up to 64 tracks, and each track can either transmit to an external midi channel (a or b), or play an internal program (the samples assigned to pads). The MPC only supports realtime and step entry modes for recording - with or without input quantize.
The XL-7 can do most of what an MPC can do - with the caveat that it only has 16 tracks, not 64. But it can address up to 64 midi channels as well - 2 sets of internal channels (a & b), as well as external gear connected to the midi ports. For convenience and simplicity, I found it easier to dedicate the "a" ports to internal sounds, and the "b" ports to external sounds.
On the XL-7 you CAN switch to grid-record while you're playing. You hold the play button down, and hit the record button.
Most operations can take place without stopping the sequencer, with the exception of quantize and transpose. You can change quantization values while recording - and I do this all the time while step-recording to create variations in the patterns.
The best part of the XL-7 is that the sequencer is very tightly integrated with the synth, and it is completely MIDI based - you can load and export midi sequences with no problems using the Eloader software (os9 only on mac).
One of my favorite things about the command station is the arpeggiators. Think of them as monophonic versions of Live's midi clips. You can trigger beats, basslines, etc. perfectly synched to the tempo. And completely user-programmable. Makes up for not having as many tracks as the MPC I think.
The synth portion of the XL-7 has become my main source of sounds. I had a lot of reservations about it, but once I blew away the factory presets, and started programming with the raw waves, I started getting some results I was very pleased with. This thing has serious bass.
The filters are a mixed bag - you can't change the resonance dynamically, and the range of them is limited, but you can layer 4 waves and use 4 different filters for each. Very nice.
The effects on the command station are weak, even the old MPC2k effect board was a lot better. I end up using just a reverb and delay, and lots of external processing. Or just designing the sounds so the "effect" is built in.
The xL-7 (and probably the rest of the P2000 machines) excell at weird sample-based digital synthesis. I love my Nord Modular, but this is the box I find myself reaching for to make everything from FM-ish digital basses to weird aliased SIDStation noises. I have yet to get a convincing 303 emulation out of it, but I get closer every time. 
The major downside of the E-mu is that they're long discontinued. And support is non-existent. EPR electronics in Florida does work on them, but they're not the most reliable in my experience.
However, I firmly believe the Command Stations will be coveted classic machines in the future. They're really fun, inspirational, and have a very deep architecture for advanced users. I cut my teeth on modulars, Kurzweil k2000s, Nord Modular, Wavestations, etc. Purely as a synth this is totally on par with those boxes.
The best way of describing the XL-7 (and the other command stations) is that they're the mutant love child of an Electribe and an MPC, with a touch of the Sequential Studio 440 here and there.
I currently have the XL-7 rom and the TSCY rom. I want to get the vintage rom and either the protozoa or the mo'phatt roms.
I find that the lack of sampling has forced me to re-think my sound design approach, and also to do things like use a delay and a microphone to add vocals as opposed to sampling them before hand.
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| Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:44 am |
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kuniklo
Livepa.org Mainstay
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 847
Location: undisclosed |
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Thanks for the detailed comparison. The CS is definitely very appealing. It's funny - I didn't really even consider using it for sounds but your description makes it seem like a reasonable capable synth too.
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| Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:00 am |
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waterway
Livepa.org Newcomer
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 6
Location: Ann Arbor, MI - Detroit |
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| RM1x vs. RS7000 |
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The Yamaha RM1x was my first sequencer and now I have the Yamaha RS7000. They are almost identical in use and design except the abilty to sample with the 7000 and an upgrade for just about every technical stat you can think of(polyphony, memory, midi channels, voices, kits, filters, effects, knobs, etc). I haven't owned any other sequncer so I couldn't speak on those but I had a few comments about these aforementioned Yamaha units. They seem to have the most logical functionality. Every single MIDI command (Note data, SysEx., control changes, and all the other stuff) can be placed on any tick(1/480th of a beat) in any measure of any track, and output separately to any MIDI channel. To manipulate this data there are about 35 'jobs' with various functions. For example job 11 is copy data. I can copy 01:03:253-01:04:002 to paste on 02:01:000 35 times and it will take 2 seconds to do it. The detail and capability of these sequencers still rivals that of computer software. (I'm not trying to spark a huge pc/hardware debate-simply speaking on the detail of the yamahas  )There are 4 different ways to record data-realtime, overdub, step, grid. However, every morsel of data can be old-school edited via the edit screen so that everything from notes to each individual control change can be moved or modified. The display screen(on both units) is large enough to be fully understood(how many machines are ruined by horrible displays?) I have used both for Live P.A. and I think they are both good in that area, but could be maybe a little better. I'd like to try other machines live. But these sequencers are very intuitive once you learn the O.S. or whatever it's called. They just seem to make sense. I've gotten so familiar with the RS7000, I feel like I'm speed typing when I'm performing operations or writing data. It feels like an extention of my brain-like this is how I would have made it. The RM1x was the same way. Now, as far as the sounds go, they don't. It's horrible. I don't know if all sequencers have shit for stock sound, but these machines do. Don't get me wrong, there ARE great sounds in these machines, but you will be tweaking for years to remove the obvious elements of cheese present in almost all of the voices(sounds, patches, whatever). The drums are ok, but again they need heavy massaging to get that cheese out if you are going to use more than a couple at a time(don't even get me started with the ride cymbals). The basses are great, but who fucks up basses? Anyways, the eventual goal is to stay away from onboard voices anyways, so I guess that's just encouragement to speed up the process. So...I guess my point is that I own the Rs7000 and it kicks your sequncer's ass (remember the old Nintendo vs. Sega days.....ahhhhh). Actually, I just wanted to reitirate that it has a very intuitive and logical interface and appears to be able to perform every conceivable MIDI operation in an absolutely ridiculous resolution(1/1920th of a measure). I've used other sequencers(not live though!), and they all seem to have a bias or language of their own that doesn't feel as natural or practical. Of course... I could be the one with the Yamaha bias. I dunno, thats my 2 cents i guess.
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| Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:18 am |
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Audioelectronic
Livepa.org Veteran
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: Portland, Oregon |
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| Oh yeah? Well YOUR SEQUENCER SUCKS! |
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It sucks so bad because... because... uh... yeah... uh... it doesn't come in your choice of Xtreme Yellow or Phatt Purple!
The one thing I didn't like about the RS7k was that is seemed so modal in operation (like the RM1x). Granted I only played with my friend's and never owned one. I'm curious - how much starting and stopping do you have to do?
Say you wanted to record these tracks:
Kick - as grid
Snare - grid
Perc - realtime
Bass - realtime
Then requantize everything with some swing.
Then save.
At which point would you have to stop the sequencer?
BTW - here's an interesting gear "mashup" someone made with an RS7k:
http://sneak-thief.com/nordrs7000.html
I've considered doing something like this with my Emu. Actually seeing someone else's white painted Command Station on here made me want to bling mine out. And of course if I bling it out, then I have to do something to it internally to make it worthy of being blinged out... so I was thinking either analog filters on a pair of aux outs, or a micromodular - with a simple resistance mixer and a small preamp to bring a mic in.
Lots of room in the case.
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http://www.nudephotomusic.com
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| Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:42 pm |
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sup909
Livepa.org Veteran
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 1054
Location: Forest Park, IL |
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| Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:47 pm |
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waterway
Livepa.org Newcomer
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 6
Location: Ann Arbor, MI - Detroit |
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| Bitches and hos |
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RS7000- If you are using step-record, you can not switch to another form of recording or editing w/o pushing stop. Grid-record(old school drum machine program method) allows a great deal of flexibility as far as switching tracks, tweaking, and previewing sounds, however you still can't switch between record modes. I use realtime replace record and edit menus as my main form of programming. For me, the grid style isn't as creative. I like playing the riffs on a keyboard usually(didn't used to be that way). So, we are probably looking for different things in our sequencers. But yes, it is very mode-based or modal. There isn't as much circularity between menus and functions, but for me that doesn't hinder the creative process. I have to start and stop tons of times when I'm programming. However, if I program a good set, I can play seemlessly for potentially hours without being too repetitve or stopping.
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| Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:40 am |
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Audioelectronic
Livepa.org Veteran
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: Portland, Oregon |
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| rs7k |
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Thanks for the info - I am still curious about the rs7k, since it's the only currently shipping high end sequencer + sampler (aside from the Radikal Technologies Spectralis).
My friend brought over his MPC2k the other night, and we had a little jam. The XL-7 and the MPC are very complementary. You can keep the solid beats with the MPC, and do all the melodic stuff with the XL-7.
One bummer about the XL-7 is that it doesn't have a solo feature, but judicious use of the "compare" button is a workarround.
And after looking at SneakThief's mashup, I'm having crazy thoughts about sticking other gear inside the XL-7.
I read on Future Producers about some guy who supposedly rebuilt an ASR-X and an MPC into the same case, sharing a zip drive and powersupply. He had pictures up at some time, and from reading the comments people actually saw it (and saw him use it live). Unfortunately the pics were long gone.
Maybe I need to find myself an Akai S20, and build it into my XL-7. Or a Roland MS-1.
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| Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:27 pm |
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synthysyzor
Livepa.org Mainstay
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 593
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| Re: rs7k |
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Last edited by synthysyzor on Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:09 pm |
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Audioelectronic
Livepa.org Veteran
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: Portland, Oregon |
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| forgot about the roland stuff... |
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That statement should have read "synth + sampler + sequencer".
Not really a fan of the roland MC stuff. I played with the MC-808 at NAMM and was completely underwhelmed. Also, it's probably one of the most plasticky and hideous looking devices ever in my opinion. And those motorized sliders are wobbly and noisy!
The MC909 I considered for a while, but it's a little big, and also again, I'm not super thrilled with both the sound and workflow of the roland stuff. I have no use for the D-beam, or for the pitch slider, and their effects all pretty much sound the same.
The Akai MPC4k is ok - but it's also HUGE. I don't have roadies to lug it around, and it's also not the most rugged device. My friend owned it, and had numerous problems with the pads and controls. It's also not very performance oriented, except for the mute/solo on the pads.
The memory limitations of the s20 isn't a big deal for me. And it's also dead simple to use, and doesn't have a cryptic midi spec like the more recent Roland samplers. I don't use big samples - it's more for the odd bit and piece there. I don't use any loops or libraries at all anymore.
I have Logic, Live, Protools and about 300gb of samples I've collected from the last 16 years... but I prefer to just program stuff up nowadays. It makes it more fun to work with limitations for me... having everything available ends up being counterproductive for me.
One of the things I love about the XL-7 is that I can usually make the sounds I want on it, and then throw together sequences very quickly, and without stopping. I'd love to see more manufacturers implement that in their machines.
And don't worry - I have plenty of experience with soldering stuff. I'm building custom midi controllers at the moment, been doing synth repair for a few years, and I've helped design and prototype electronic devices before. And I just picked up a spare XL-7.
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NPM10008 Two Trains Running by Audioelectronic out on Beatport - July 14, 2010
http://www.nudephotomusic.com
http://www.twitter.com/nudephotomusic
http://www.soundcloud.com/nudephotomusic |
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| Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:41 am |
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synthysyzor
Livepa.org Mainstay
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 593
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| Re: forgot about the roland stuff... |
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Last edited by synthysyzor on Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:13 pm |
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decrepitude
Livepa.org Veteran
Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 1476
Location: Bloomington, Indiana USA |
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| Re: forgot about the roland stuff... |
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... I'm building custom midi controllers at the moment, been doing synth repair for a few years, and I've helped design and prototype electronic devices before. And I just picked up a spare XL-7. |
You make custom midi controllers? Just for yourself or...?
Also if you had to, could you repair the data wheel on the XL-7? Those are notorious for failing after some time. Mine is goofy. It seems to respond better after the unit has warmed up a bit. But certainly the data wheel is tempermental all the time when you spin the thing too fast. Tha data wheel on the Akai MPC1000 seems to be (so far) more impervious.
Anyway, as far as I can tell the only qualified service center for EMU is in Tampa. The parts and labor is aprox. $150.00 USD.
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| Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:33 pm |
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Audioelectronic
Livepa.org Veteran
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 1266
Location: Portland, Oregon |
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| E-mu repairs |
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The place you're talking about in Tampa has to be EPR electronics. They have pretty much the E-mu service locked down. They bought all the parts when E-mu hardware went out of business.
So did they quote you $150 for repairing the datawheel? It is probably one of the easier repairs to do - it's pretty well documented on one of the yahoo groups.
At some point I have to do it as well. I've opened the unit and the trickiest part is just desoldering the encoder. You can get a replacement encoder that's better quality for about the same price that EPR charges - there's nothing proprietary about it.
The midi controllers I've been building are for Thomas Dolby. I'm running behind on one at the moment - hopefully I can get it done so he can use it in his upcoming tour!
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NPM10008 Two Trains Running by Audioelectronic out on Beatport - July 14, 2010
http://www.nudephotomusic.com
http://www.twitter.com/nudephotomusic
http://www.soundcloud.com/nudephotomusic |
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| Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:22 pm |
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decrepitude
Livepa.org Veteran
Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 1476
Location: Bloomington, Indiana USA |
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| Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:58 pm |
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MagpieIndustries
Livepa.org Regular
Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 194
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| Re: E-mu repairs |
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The place you're talking about in Tampa has to be EPR electronics. They have pretty much the E-mu service locked down. They bought all the parts when E-mu hardware went out of business.
So did they quote you $150 for repairing the datawheel? It is probably one of the easier repairs to do - it's pretty well documented on one of the yahoo groups.
At some point I have to do it as well. I've opened the unit and the trickiest part is just desoldering the encoder. You can get a replacement encoder that's better quality for about the same price that EPR charges - there's nothing proprietary about it.
The midi controllers I've been building are for Thomas Dolby. I'm running behind on one at the moment - hopefully I can get it done so he can use it in his upcoming tour! |
Pleasepleaseplease any info on this replacement encoder???!!! I am urgently in need of one!
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| Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:29 pm |
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